Nietzsche "On Chastity"

[Beg4Bethany]

As some of Y/you may be aware I have a new found LOVE for philosophy… especially Nietzsche. I am currently reading his book “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” and found a section entitled, “On Chastity” 8O , I would like to share an excerpt and a passage with you.

“Is it not better to fall into the hands of a murder than into the dreams of a woman in heat?” – Nietzsche

“Do I counsel you to slay your senses? I counsel the innocence of the senses.

Do I counsel you to chastity? Chastity is a virtue in some, but almost a vice in many. They abstain, but the bitch, sensuality, leers enviously out of everything they do. Even to the heights of their virtue and to the cold regions of the spirit this beast follows them with her lack of pleasure. And how nicely the bitch, sensuality, knows how to beg for a piece of spirit when denied a piece of meat.

Do you loves tragedies and everything that breaks your heart? But I mistrust your bitch. Your eyes are too cruel and you search lustfully for sufferers. Is it not merely your lust that has disguised itself and now calls itself pity?” – Nietzsche

What do Y/you’all think? I am fairly certain that male chastity devices were NOT widely popular in 1884, I am also pretty sure T&D was not a household topic of conversation. Vanilla? Sheesh I don’t know if straight sex was even vanilla back then… Nietzsche… a man before his time! YUM! How’d he know bout Us Sistas?

*gigglin at dem boys a squirmmin*
Princess Bethany

[mpjk6712]

Nice selections! I have a feeling that you will find many references to chastity in your philosophical readings. Let us know if you find good ones like these.

[ward]

hey sex is not a recent invention...nor are the fun things...

[tristan]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems very anti-chastity and teaseing to me. Seems to be against the put on purity.
His 'Superman' was very much of the earth...only. It was the biggest problem he had.....the 'Superman' was ideal, of the earth. and of the body, but had nothing without the spirit.

I will admit it has been 10 years since I read it and perhaps my linterpretation will be different now, but the 'Superman' ultimatly failed.

Tristan

[danni7]

i respectfully point out, Princess, that the author died insane! :)

[MakeMeAche]

yes danni7, Nietzsche died insane, and people wishing to discredit his views often point this out
however, the fact is that Nietzsche had an infection in his brain which caused his insanity, and but it is not the case that he had this infection all his life or anything such as that, so its not as though he was insane while writing all his brilliant works

[mike123]

also, he was a nazi.

[slaveguy18]

actualy he wasant a nazi
hitler was just a fan of his

[4Play]

My favorite subject, I have read much on this, The Prophet, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, The Dancing Woo Li Masters, The Tao Of Physics, The Teachings of Don Juan, The Abolition of Man, The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, Rhythms of Vision, The Finding of the Third Eye, Secrets of the Heart, Entropy, The Bagava Ghita, Paradise Lost, Subud, the coming new age of reality. Just to name a few. It is a lifelong persuit of knowledge, A means to an End, and End in itself..
This would perhaps explain, to a point, some of my meaningless ramblings?

[gurdjieff]

You've posted lot of different approaches, some very New Age-ish and questionable; others quite serious and traditional.

I'm not familiar with all of them. You can't go wrong with the "Bagava Ghita" [sic-Bhagavad Gita] if you are able to persevere with it. There's quite a few excellent areas you've neglected to mention. Personally, I'd avoid Gibron or Subud. And it would seem to me that a "lifelong pursuit of knowledge" without anything more than that, would ultimately provide no more meanign than a lifeling pursuit of sensual pleasure or hanging out at the mall.

[MakeMeAche]

wow, I'm glad slaveguy18 pointed out mike123's error there...there are a lot of misconceptions about Nietzsche that come from ignorance...Hitler also considered himself a Christian, but do people go around saying Jesus was Nazi??

wow, this is so off topic for these forums....I'm done now

[mike123]

i did oversimplify a little, considering nichy was dead before nazis even existed, but there is little doubt that he would have been a nazi if he was alive then. his works support eugenics, racism, and discrimination.

your reference to jesus is simply a straw man, because hitler did not act like jesus. but with nichy, hitler just followed out the plan that nichy wrote about for so many years.

[MakeMeAche]

mike123...you said, "your reference to jesus is simply a straw man, because hitler did not act like jesus"

first of all, that's not a straw man...a straw man argument would be if I argued against a misrepresentation of your viewpoint, rather than what you'd actually said...rather, I was just showing that the fact that Hitler was a fan of Nietzsche is poor support for the claim that Nietzsche was a nazi

second, I can't help but wonder where you get your ideas on Nietzsche...please, enlighten us by actually providing support for your claims

I'm sorry if anyone is annoyed by this thread, feeling that it is way off topic for these forums...I've gotten annoyed by these kind of off-topic discussions before too, when I wasn't part of them...I guess I should have just not read them, so please bear with us and simply ignore threads that don't interest you

[Beg4Bethany]

or move the discussion to the off topic forum... and JESUS People... who's to say what's on and off topic, are We not whole complex individuals with diverse interests and needs?

Tolerance, trying something, can only make Us better People... oooooh no, not that!

[mike123]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/eugen.html
The German philosopher Nichy introduced the concept of the Golden Superman, as the pinnacle of human evolution and development.
"Golden Superman".... "Aryan master race"... you get the idea.

more evidence: http://www.mith.demon.co.uk/nietintr.htm
Nichy speaks of the possibility of breeding the superman, toying with the principles of racialism and eugenics... For such eugenic measures to be possible would entail a degree of state control that could only mean socialism... Nichy's ideas as such are incompatible with democratic political engagement... Nichy ... is urging us to replace the Christian ideal by that of the superman.

enough with your ad hominen attacks. read some nichy and then maybe you can have some insight into this disturbing topic.[/code]

[gurdjieff]

I have no problem with off topic posts. I suppose it is far better to post something here on Nietzsche, then to post something about having one's genitals teased for hours and then denied on a forum devoted to Nietzche. :)

In any event, from my recollection of my undergrad Philosophy years, many years ago:
Hitler used as propaganda tools, in a selective way, Nietzsche, Wagner and others. Is Nietzsche very much opposed to the Judeo-Christian ethics? Most definately. However, that does not make him a fascist, a racist or someone who would have necessarily been supportive of Hitler.
His concept of "Superman" has nothing to do with racial purity or a so-called "Aryan ideal".

Quoting an obscure unpublished author on the net to "prove" otherwise is hardly persuasive.

For alternative views see for example:

"Nietzsche influenced many people after his time had passed. Hitler used, or shall we say misused, Nietzsche's ideas to help him justify his cause"- http://www.usd.edu/honors/HWB/hwb_h/exist.htm

I am not at all a fan of Nietzsche, who is liked mostly by dewey-eyed, pseudo-philosophical, artsy types who wear far too much black, upon first leaving their parent's basement to venture into the "real world". However, he is not a Nazi.

[Beg4Bethany]

LOL ouch! well mr philosophy snob! *giggles* if you are ever bored LOL look at My futre reading selections and tell Me if you notice any GLARING holes?

[gurdjieff]

My characterization of the typical young person drawn to Existentionalism was not meant to be specifically directed towards you. It is good that you have a sense of humour about it though.

Though I do not know what types of areas interest you in your reading, I'd be glad to add my subjective comments to your reading list. Where would I locate that?

[Beg4Bethany]

well thus far Niestzsche was My cherry popper.... I am cutting My teeth on "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", ummmm I would be happy to discuss My booklist sometime in YIMs or PMs if I ever come up for air. :wink:

though I know straight away I have some Kierkegaard on there, Lao Tsu, ummm, Blake, Frost, Keats....

well....
you let Me know you recommendation I'll peek

[mike123]

all i'm saying, is i've read nichy, and he seems like a nazi to me. many people agree with my conclusion.

http://www.uta.edu/english/apt/fritz/nietzschenazi.jpg

from wikipedia, a most credible source:
Nichy's writings on "the Jewish question" were critical of the Jewish population in Europe

[MakeMeAche]

so, mike123...many people agree with your conclusion....so what?? many people voted for George W. Bush, that doesn't mean it was a smart decision....many people once believed the Earth was flat, but that didn't make it true...your ad populum defense of your viewpoint proves nothing

I have to say, mike, I really don't see why anyone would take your views on Nietzsche seriously, considering you spell it "nichy" every time, even in the quotes you give from websites....

also, let's not be stupid here...in case you haven't noticed, not everything on the internet is true, so citing the views of someone who just happens to have their opinion on the internet is no way to prove a point, and I find quoting such people rather that Nietzsche himself a poor attempt to support your argument...and you still have the gall to say "read some nichy and then maybe you can have some insight into this disturbing topic"...how can even say that when none of your quotes are even from Nietzsche's writing, rather just from a few interpretations of his writing?
also, I have read a fair share of Nietzsche's work, so no need for the advice

[MakeMeAche]

and hey, while we're at it, why don't we look at something that was actually written by Nietzsche...here's a link to a website I found where you can read letter's Nietzsche wrote to various people (I've checked in a book I have and, as far as the one's I've checked go, the letters are the same, so I don't think the person who made the website is just making them up)

http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/nlett1887.htm

anyone interested in the current debate might like to go to that link and check out the last two letters, which Nietzsche wrote to his sister regarding her husband's involvement with an anti-semitic group and how that has caused Nietzsche's name to be associated with such groups..you'll see how displeased he was with this and you'll see his opinion of such groups

[mike123]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

[Charlescharms]

Beyond Good & Evil is a nice read. Being and Time -()H()
Then move to Lateral Thinking Puzzles (Paul Sloane)
And then you'll be ready for Liber Null & Psychonaut

Then you will be dangerous - ok - more dangerous than you already are

DS

[MakeMeAche]

mike123, why the childish response?

[mike123]

some would say i'm a disturbed person. who knows. sorry.